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Rivkah רִבְקָה

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A Girl in Boyland - WizardWorld Chicago [Aug. 8th, 2005|10:24 pm]
Rivkah רִבְקָה
I've been bashing my head against the keyboard trying to think up what to write for the past few hours now. I'm feeling a little guilty, but honestly . . . I really enjoyed WizardWorld (I really hate that name) Chicago, and I keep asking myself, "What the hell is WRONG with you, Rivkah?! You were one of a very small percentage of women (perhaps 5-10% of the convention). Very few people were actually selling manga. And to sum it up, the Marvel boy-club meet (which I wasn't actually at, but was told of from afar) was at a freakin' STRIP CLUB." People have accused the comics crowd of being one giant boys club, and honestly, they couldn't be any closer to the truth.

Though, I have to admit . . . it's one HOT boy's club. If you think that comic conventions are made up primarily of sweaty, overweight men in spandex and capes, you really couldn't be any further from the truth. I don't know why the convention reports always focus on the few instances said costumes occur, because it really is a misrepresentation of the number of cute, unattached 20-something guys in NORMAL clothing.

That aside, artist's alley was freakin' amazing and technical skill abounded. I don't think I've drooled over so many sketchbooks and inked pages in my life. My pockets itched to buy more, but somehow I managed to stop myself and walk away with only a few prints from David Mack (creator of Kabuki) and a book on political cartoons from the late 1800's that I found at a little booth selling older comics. (yeah, yeah, so maybe I'm really a geek at heart)

To say the least, Chicago was . . . interesting. Most of my weekend I spent either with the TP crew or discussing comics with Felipe (Smith) and Takeshi (Miyazawa) (and various other artists) until 5 and 6 in the morning. I knew Felipe would be there but Takeshi was a surprise; I was browsing through artist's alley, when suddenly I was like, "heyyyyyy . . . I know that art!" To say the least, I got to see MUCH more art (inked and toned pages from a series called "Sidekicks") and have been thoroughly humbled by his skill. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!! *weep* And Felipe draws his art with the speed of a bat out of hell. No wonder he got his book done so fast. O_o

However, I should probably end my babble here and discuss the more serious issues that continue to linger in my mind.

The comics industry is changing.

I have no doubt that what we saw in comics 5 years ago is going to be nothing like what we'll see in stores 5 years from now. And it isn't just what I saw inside of the convention. It's what I saw OUTSIDE of it.

Being able to speak to other artists and writers . . . the kind that work for Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, etc . . . was nothing short of amazing. These guys have some incredible skill, but it's more than that. Being unfamiliar with the American comics industry, nearly half of the people I spoke to, I was unable to attach art style to face or name. "Yeah. I draw for Spiderman."

Cr*p. I've never read Spiderman. Or Superman. Or the Fantastic Four. So I thought up the only question I know to ask:

"Do you ever draw anything for yourself?"

The reaction I got to that querry both confused and inspired me. One guy . . . I can't remember his name but apparently he's incredibly popular for his catwoman covers or something . . . said outright, "No." And he gave me this look of confusion that said, "Why the hell would I do that?" Like I was *nuts*.

But with others, there was something different. Maybe it's because the majority of people I asked are from a younger generation such as myself, with different dreams and ambitions influenced by a more open global culture spurred on by the success of the internet.

First I'd see a spark in the eyes. Someone would sit up a little straighter. Others would lean in. Somebody would shift in his seat.

"Have you ever wanted to create your own stories? Your own characters? Your own worlds?" I'd ask.

Felipe spoke of the FEAR that drives him to create. I spoke of the PASSION and the LOVE. In other people's eyes, I'd see almost a flash of fear, and then one of hunger.

Because you see . . . apparently those who work for Marvel, those who work for DC, those who work for the companies that have premade-characters fashioned out of plastic molds and branded with the seal of corporate approval . . . even they want to create something new and innovative. Something they can feel passionate about.

Yet still, almost none of them understood.

Them: "How can you feel so passionate about your art? I don't get it."

Me: "How can you NOT?"


Because that's it. For many it's just a job. You go in at nine in the morning and leave at 5 in the evening. Yet . . . like all sane yet inspired people . . . there's a craving for something more. Being an artist or a writer doesn't make you automatically creative. It just makes you good at what you do and exceptionally talented. And just like the 9-5 worker, there's always the dream for something *more*.

There are some *really* good stories that have been brewing in the minds of these guys. Everybody has a story they want to tell, something that continues to linger in the heart. It just needs a path to come out.

After a weekend of being surrounded by the guys and the girl(s) that really do work for these companies, I'm starting to view the industry in a new light. A lot of these people really do have good intentions. But I still have mixed feelings about these intentions. I saw marked hesitation for change.

But nothing will ever improve unless you change. Otherwise it'll stay the same old stories and the same old characters recycled over and over and over again. A certain someone at DC . . . told me that they were looking to hire more female creators and get more girls comics out there. But he said it with a sort of disinterest and scorn. And I was incredibly insulted when he said (along these lines), "Sure working for TOKYOPOP is fun, but a corporate paycheck is even nicer."

It isn't JUST about money to some of us, man. Of course, it is to the company. But do you really think waving a bigger paycheck in front of my nose when the end result may be a restriction on my story and my characters will win me over? I kept his card, but I pray I never have need for it. Because TOKYOPOP gives me creative freedom. I'm given room to explore and develop my characters. I'm aloud to give them LIFE.

And the pay isn't great right now, but these men and women who work for TOKYOPOP fucking LOVE what they're doing to the industry right now. They're EXCITED about our books. F*ck. They WANT change. They want to stir things up and shake it around. Every story TOKYOPOP picks up is different. I've never met Stu, but apparently he's told his editors that even if he doesn't quite like a series, if THEY feel passionate about a certain creator and their work, he'll back them. How often does THAT happen?

And while I've made sacrifices of my own giving up a job and going full-time into a career that currently pays peanuts, the company I work for has made sacrifices of their own, too. It's expensive to produce original graphic novels. But somebody out there believes in us.

And so, I've learned something this weekend in Chicago. I've learned that the desire for change is there. I've learned that TOKYOPOP is sweeping up all the innovative talent they see as fast as they can and truly building a formidable machine to implement that change. I've learned that DC and Marvel would *like* improvement but aren't always willing (or maybe unable) to follow through. I've learned that technical and creative skill are two entirely different things. I've learned a little more humility and awe from fellow creators.

And I've become even more passionate and dedicated to what I do. One tiny voice, barely even a blip on the radar, adding to all the barely sub-blips clamoring for something new.

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[User Picture]From: selphish
2005-08-08 09:57 pm (UTC)
Wow, I feel so bad for those DC comic artists.
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[User Picture]From: lilrivkah
2005-08-08 10:04 pm (UTC)
I can see if you're viewing it as "just a job" how not having creative control over a licensed character may not be as bad as we all think it is. It's like going in to a normal job and working for somebody else every day. You do your job, get your paycheck, and you leave. That's it.

DC and Marvel don't appear to mistreat the majority of their creators. They're just corporate and it functions that way.

*I* could personally never do it because I can hardly function in a non-creative job working for somebody else, but other people do. Some want more. Some are perfectly happy. It all just depends on the individual and their ambitions of how satisfied they are with what they have.
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[User Picture]From: rachelmanija
2005-08-08 10:09 pm (UTC)
I am extremely relieved to hear the rumor that it's possible to sell to Tokyopop even if Stu doesn't love your project. Not that I think he won't-- it's just that he's the last person left who hasn't seen it yet, and I've been having little fits of panic over "So everyone else loves it-- what if Stu hates it and that's the end of everything OMG!"

By the way, I don't think anyone at DC is getting paid much either. I did some asking around, and comics in general don't pay much-- that's why there's hardly any agents who specialize in comic writers or artists-- so the guy who gets the corporate paycheck is probably getting a pretty paltry one.

Except for Vertigo, I'm pretty fed up with Marvel and DC. Bet their "girls' comics" feature oversexualized, giggling morons in pink frilly dresses.
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[User Picture]From: desayunoencama
2005-08-20 05:27 am (UTC)
that's why there's hardly any agents who specialize in comic writers or artists

There's www.kitchenandhansen.com although they mostly deal with already-successful comics creators...
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[User Picture]From: uminomamori
2005-08-08 10:31 pm (UTC)
I know I couldn't do it either (when I write my own scripts the go through major change by the time I have the page drawn anyway. I couldn't stick to anyone else's script unless I was allowed to tweak), but I'm not confident enough in coming up with long plots on my own... so no TP for me unfortunately:(
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[User Picture]From: lostsilmaril
2005-08-08 10:34 pm (UTC)
Very nicely written... and it sounds like the story you're telling here is the story of every industry, the tale of those who sit up eagerly with fear and hope comingling at the idea of a truly passionate creation. Of industry resistant to change, and working on things lovingly enough to give yourself to art. And that distinction that seems to run across all fields, between technical and creative skill. A very nice bit of thinking indeed.
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[User Picture]From: maiteoida
2005-08-08 10:54 pm (UTC)
That's incredibly interesting to hear...though I think you hit the nail on the head when you described the feeling of having freedom with your own creations- that's an extremely important factor to me, so hearing this is very uplifting. I can only hope that the next 5 years will be as good as these past 5 years have been...if only for my own sake. :)
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[User Picture]From: tiltomilto
2005-08-08 11:00 pm (UTC)

First I have to say that I am insanely jealous. I would kill to have been in Chicago.

Second, I'm not sure I agree with you on the whole "premade-characters fashioned out of plastic molds and branded with the seal of corporate approval" thing. While I can see how someone who creates their own stuff could think this way, I think it's actually as much of a talent to continue the stories about these characters. I can see how much it would suck to be stuck writing or drawing a crappy "just draw her from angles where you can see her ass a lot" character, but there are characters out there who have such a rich and complicated history that it is possible to take risks and do new things with them. If someone told me I could draw and write wolverine for the rest of my life I would poop myself. There is just so much history there to play with, and I think the challenge of staying within the character while still making it interesting would be worth the boundaries.

Third, the paycheck. I am very new to the art of creating comics, but I’m not new to art. I will be graduating in December with a bachelors in theatre arts, which I originally intended to use to be an actor/director. The thing is, after several years of education and even the occasional professional acting job, I found myself often getting tired of it. Also, at about the same time I was re-evaluating the goals that I set off to college with. Originally, all I wanted in the world was to be a damn good actor and director, but as time went on wanting acting and directing jobs turned into wanting to someday get married, have kids, and live near my parents. There wasn’t anything wrong with acting any more, I was still good at it, I enjoyed it, but it just didn’t light my fire the way it used to, the way that the idea of the nice little house and home idea does now. So, much to the disappointment of a lot of my friends, I "sold out." Now, as soon as I graduate I am heading back to school to get my teaching certificate and I am going to be a high school drama teacher. While this means that I will never be the big actor I wanted to be, it also means that I wont be asking a family to move around constantly and to scrape by on an actor salary, but I still stay involved with my art. Some people get angry with me and tell me I'm compromising on my dream, I just tell them that my dream is changing.

So going back to where this long ramble actually applies to anything, your sheer enthusiasm to your art is awe-inspiring. It's great for me to read about as I am beginning to venture, even as just a hobby, into the world of sequential art (well, at least it's a hobby until I marvel decided they want to pick up my book and pay me millions of dollars to draw and write for them ;). I just wanted to share my two cents on why some people view this creating as a "job" and maybe aren’t as passionate about it as others. Sometimes old passions give way to new ones, but the old ones never really die, if you are lucky they just turn into a paycheck.

Fourth, I am STILL incredibly jealous.
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[User Picture]From: sxyblkmn
2005-08-08 11:48 pm (UTC)
Second, I'm not sure I agree with you on the whole "premade-characters fashioned out of plastic molds and branded with the seal of corporate approval" thing. While I can see how someone who creates their own stuff could think this way, I think it's actually as much of a talent to continue the stories about these characters. I can see how much it would suck to be stuck writing or drawing a crappy "just draw her from angles where you can see her ass a lot" character, but there are characters out there who have such a rich and complicated history that it is possible to take risks and do new things with them. If someone told me I could draw and write wolverine for the rest of my life I would poop myself. There is just so much history there to play with, and I think the challenge of staying within the character while still making it interesting would be worth the boundaries.

yeah, i completely agree. i'd feel the same way if someone told me i could do that with spider-man or batman
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[User Picture]From: sxyblkmn
2005-08-08 11:50 pm (UTC)
cool con review

::me = jealous:: :)

guess i still have HeroCon in '06 to still look forward to :)

and while i know it's crude:
And to sum it up, the Marvel boy-club meet (which I wasn't actually at, but was told of from afar) was at a freakin' STRIP CLUB

i love you marvel LoL
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[User Picture]From: wyldkyss
2005-08-09 08:14 am (UTC)
Yes, we should definitely try HeroCon. Are you hitting Dragoncon too?
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[User Picture]From: annakkah
2005-08-09 01:19 am (UTC)
It's fascinating to see the different viewpoints, and I feel that I'm too much more of a customer than an employee in the manga (well, in this case American comics) business to express much opinion, but... "How can you feel so passionate about your art? I don't get it." How can the consumer be passionate about a product that doesn't entice the creator? (skimming through a few comics shows me that there is passion there, but this is purely from your statement XD; )
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[User Picture]From: theoneeyednun
2005-08-09 02:08 am (UTC)
fun report, i've never been to wizard world chicago. i need to go sometime, a lot of my friends attend that con, and chicago is one of the more architecturally cool cities in the country.

on the dc/marvel creator side of it, i'm always weirded out at san diego when there are lines of people who have portfolios at portfolio review areas filled with possible spiderman or batman pages trying to get a gig working for marvel or dc. i used to think it was just an older generation of artists that do that stuff but it seems like a fair amount of young guys are trying to break in to that business too. i really don't associate with em.
all i can say is there is a group of people who are very into making their own comics and i guess they'd fall into the american indie comics heading. i think this group has all grown up on superhero comics but basically lost interest in them completely. most my friends are trying or are working through slave labor graphics, oni press, image comics and other small press publishers, so yeah read books by these guys.
sometimes i feel kinda funny working for tokyopop in that i don't read very much manga, don't know any manga artists and the only anime i like is flcl. and it seems most the tokyopop creators (this may be changing) are quite the opposite? this might sound totally stupid but are there people who grew up soley on manga and anime, who are now making their own manga? because those people are completely new to me, and the only ones i know of are at tokyopop. i dunno, i don't know enough about anything to really say i think. eh whatever.

sidekicks rules, tak is an awesome artist, and if you don't know about the BFX PROJECT he does with arthur delacruz you should check it out too.

i don't know if i said anything useful in this post. but thanks for yours.
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[User Picture]From: mopedronin
2005-08-09 02:56 am (UTC)

The comics industry is changing.

good. it needs to!
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[User Picture]From: newbabyfly
2005-08-09 03:49 am (UTC)
Forgive me for the random comment, but I saw this post linked on fluffyduck's journal, and I'm so very glad she did! There's a reason I'm perfectly content to stay working at a manual labor job that a monkey could do even though I have a degree in art- I don't want my art to become a job and something I hate as that would mean an end to all my dreams. This is one of the most optimistic things I've read for those wanting to break into the comic world and definitly something I needed to hear to help cut down on my cynical views of trying to survive by being an artist AND passionate about what you do.

I've always felt like an 'outsider' to the comic world, as I didn't grow up on them and am totally clueless about the american industry- I didn't grow up drawing spiderman or whatever, I grew up drawing Darkwing Duck and Tales Spin and stuff from other cartoons. So my art's always had some sort of grounding in cartoons/comics from the very beginning, but when I meet others, like a friend I had in college who now works for Image. That was all he's ever wanted to do was draw comics, whereas I didn't start taking them seriously until about four or five years ago. he must be one of the lucky ones though, because not only is his dream coming true, he's doing it his way and working on projects he's passionate about.

I know I find it incredibly difficult to draw (and stick with!) comics that I didn't write or ones I don't feel strongly about... But the way life is sometimes makes it so very difficult to make what your passion is the same thing that allows you stay fed and clothed or whatever. As I said before, I'll take a job of boring drudgery to take care of that and then do what I really want to be doing in my off-time. It may not always be fun, but doing something meaningful to me at least aprt of the time is better than none at all. I can deal with being poor but happy.

In any case... add another blip on that radar!

(er... and I'll shut up now.) XD
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From: theleftovers
2006-01-01 08:00 pm (UTC)


I can go for the whole artistic integrity thing, but at a certain point artists are going to have to realize most of their value is in their ability to be craftsmen. That means work for hire.
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[User Picture]From: sircrazlot
2005-08-09 05:31 am (UTC)

woooo ^_^

whoa... dude I have tunnel vision from reading all of your post (past and present) XD You are extremely talented and inspiring! This post took me back to my college years (or I should say trade school). Though a really good school the Joe Kubert school was alittle fixed on making more image,marvel and dc comic artists (dude I still laugh at my attempt at the old 4 page batman assignment XD XD ). So hopping my happy little tail in there and drawing in my cartoony style was a turn off for most of the students there. It was a male driven school... in my first year I was one of 3 females in my class...by 2nd year and onward I was the only female) ... but surprisingly, I did get alot of support for some of the teachers and Kubert himself... maybe it was because of the lack of females in the industry... or maybe they just missed cartoons XD I donno

but it is a shame when I watch some of these artist go out and go for the gold instead of getting the heck out there and publishing their dream. maybe its all the hard work involved that scares them. Not sure.

It's all boiling down to what you are inspired/driven to do. I defiantly see a change coming in the next few years and as rocky as it seems I agree that its a good thing coming if we tread wisely.

ok I think I've absolutely blown up your LJ XD XD

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

God Bless

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[User Picture]From: rexcityzen
2005-08-09 05:57 am (UTC)

You really should have this published as an article. Well written,insightful and it gave me a whole new perspective on artists vs. "comic industry" artists. Very cool,very well done.Cheers.

(PS:"I can't remember his name but apparently he's incredibly popular for his catwoman covers or something . . . " - Cameron Stewart???)
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[User Picture]From: bremxjones
2005-08-09 06:30 am (UTC)

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[User Picture]From: alexdecampi
2005-08-09 06:52 am (UTC)
You're not alone, Rivkah. There are a lot of us for whom comics mean first and foremost telling our own stories; inventing our own worlds. On livejournal alone there's Charity Larrison, Dean Haspiel, Farel Dalrymple, Dan Goldman, Brian Wood, Jamie McKelvie and a huge amount of others I'm probably forgetting.

I just find it really tragic that some people could spend 20 years in a "creative" industry doing nothing but pouring their heart and soul into... servicing corporate trademarks.
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[User Picture]From: fr0w
2005-08-09 07:09 am (UTC)
i'm sorry it's hard to believe that "Do you ever draw anything for yourself?" would be a hard question to answer. but maybe i'm just naive. how can anyone grab something and not create something for themself.. even i, after years of being on a sort of artistic hiatus, still draws in the water my cold glasses leave on the tabel, tear bits of paper into interesting designs, or even draw funky doddles.. i consider this to be for myself and only for myself. but like you said, to them it's a job... and in that probably lies the problem with todays comics.. (if you view one). then again the worst chefs are the ones that come home, and hate to cook.
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[User Picture]From: lord_hatred
2005-08-09 07:35 am (UTC)
I loved reading this. I think it really speaks as to why so many of the so-called mainstream comics just don't interest me anymore. Comics mainstream has become nothing more than nostalgia; both on the part of fans and of the creators. I'm getting old now (closer to 30 than I thought I would ever be a few years ago) and maybe getting more mature. My tastes have refined from when I was a kid. I don't want the same stories -- but now with bloodshed! I want something that speaks to me as an adult. And I don't think I'm going to get it from creators who are only doing it to play with their favorite toys as a kid.

I'm not saying it can't come from Spider-Man or Green Lantern because I absolutely believe it can. It just isn't happening because of the structure of the companies who market themselves as corporate mainstream nostalgia.

I've added you to my friends list. I love to read about people passionate about their comics.
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[User Picture]From: telophase
2005-08-09 07:46 am (UTC)
I'll be a slight divergence from the norm here - my creativity is such that I am a natural collaborator. I need structure and outside input of some sort to boot me off the rut I put myself in or I just flounder a lot and don't take risks. This doesn't mean I don't have strong opions about the way a story or piece of art goes or how to improve it, but unless I have been given the raw materials to work with, it's just like poking at a void for me.

I'd probably do well in the Japanese team system, where the stories are developed and written and drawn collaboratively, and not so much in the indie-comics system completely on my own.
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[User Picture]From: lnhammer
2005-08-09 07:49 am (UTC)
I can't help comparing working as a corporate artist to working as a technical writer. I'm in a department of about two-dozen, about half of whole are working at writing as a job. Some of them freelance at this stuff as well, but in general, they're happy to be using their writing skills at (what's ostensibly) non-creative writing. It's a life skill they're good at, and they're getting paid to use it. And I can really dig that attitude. It took years for the jazz of being paid to write to wear off.

The other half of us, this is our day job to support our other work. Two are musicians, one's an interior decorator, one's a part-time artist, one's a photographer and another's seriouly thinking about it, and three writers (variously poetry and fiction), including me. Writing this stuff is good practice at wordcraft. It's also writing anything. And there are times I'm willing to do a lot to write, even if it's not my own stuff.

But I'm not passionate about my software manuals the way I am about, say,Greek myth sex farces or teen lesbian romantic comedies. But I can understand being satisfied about manuals.

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[User Picture]From: goraina
2005-08-09 07:53 am (UTC)
hear, hear!

i've never been to WWChi, but i intend to go one of these days to do the same sort of social studies you've described. although, i get too shy to talk to folks sometimes, and just observe from the side...

anyway, an interesting summary. you have to try san diego soon. :)
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[User Picture]From: goraina
2005-08-09 07:56 am (UTC)
also, do you know jen contino from the pulse? i'm sure she'd love to run this or something similar as a "pro's and con's" article on the site. even if not for that specifically, i think your commentary could be a nice contribution to the site, so you should drop her a line no matter what. she does interviews, too. you can tell her i sent you: jencomx3 AT aol DOT com! :)
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[User Picture]From: wyldkyss
2005-08-09 08:16 am (UTC)
It is rather shocking that they would get into the comic industry purely on idol worshipping. I mean, yes, most people look at other comics as kids and go "cool, I can draw that too!" But nothing of their own? I'm quite surprised.
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[User Picture]From: sxyblkmn
2005-08-09 01:05 pm (UTC)
I mean, yes, most people look at other comics as kids and go "cool, I can draw that too!" But nothing of their own? I'm quite surprised.

yeah, that really surprised me too...
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[User Picture]From: janni
2005-08-09 08:20 am (UTC)
I've gone around debating this--is it better for the day job work to be writing-related, so that at least I'm writing; or is it better for it to be something completely different, so that any writing I do is my own.

Not sure I've come up with an answer yet. I do know that sometimes, I find ways to make the for-hire writing somewhat my own, and do have fun with it, even if it is to specifications.

OTOH, there's a reason most of my for-hire writing these days in nonfiction, leaving the fiction to all be the stuff I really want to be writing.
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From: aussa
2005-08-09 08:23 am (UTC)
It must have been really different there... Oo;;
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From: (Anonymous)
2005-08-09 08:36 am (UTC)
Really insightful post. I'm saving it for future inspiration, ok?

i can't really say that I completely agree with you, since there are mainstream superhero creators who are fantastically passionate about their works, who feel the urge to do his own characters and stories, etc. Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Grant Morrison all spring to mind. I and a lot of creators I know stand in a middle ground: I do things for myself, I do create my own stories, but I would love to work with corporate characters too (but not exclusively). The combination of style and point of view always make your work unique. No one can do what you do. And I wouldn't feel like playing God with anything because mainstream superhero comics where always a matter of different views and collaborative work. You have Frank Miller's adult, violent representation of Batman and Grant Morrison's insane, science-fiction-esque version and both are equally valid. And, on the other side, both creators have their own fantastic creator-owned stories, and are so passionate about their works that when corporate interests tried to cut off their works, they fought back. Passionately.

I can't understand people who strive exclusively to work with corporate characters, but I don't know many who think like that. The majority of people I know would love to do both things, playing with the corporate toys and creating their own too.
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[User Picture]From: lilrivkah
2005-08-09 09:46 am (UTC)
I can see how working with other people's characters can be fulfilling in it's own way. It's like me going into my old job, working for somebody else, but I just got done pulling a 80-hour week, and there's deffinitely that sense of satisfaction when I'm done. It's just a job. But it's a job well done. So I deffinitely understand that part.

However, when it comes to doing something purely for the sake of passion and needing to find a way to fulfill my creative drive, I don't think I could ever find that anywhere else but in original works. "Sin City" will always be my favorite of Frank Miller's works while his company-owned creations linger somewhere in the shadows.
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[User Picture]From: warren_ellis
2005-08-09 09:26 am (UTC)
I should take a moment to apologise for the traffic and probable wankers I've sent you today.

-- W
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[User Picture]From: lilrivkah
2005-08-09 09:40 am (UTC)
I was wondering where they were all coming from! I certainly welcome the traffic, and as for the wankers . . . I'll just have to bust out my boots. :D
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